frostsaber

Late last night I finally got exalted reputation with the Frostsaber Trainers, and finally got my Winterspring Frostsaber mount! Isn't it beautiful?

It only took me 22 (real life) days to go from 75 points into neutral all the way to exalted reputation. I started this grind on July 13, and casually ground out the requisite quests whenever I could. Though I had the idea to try to track my actual in game time, I lost track early on. Based on some tests I did, I estimated between 27 and 30 in game hours. I believe I was pretty close to those estimates.

Though Blizzard has substantially decreased the amount of time it would have taken to complete this reputation grind, 27-30 hours is still a lot of time. Anyone who has ever ground out reputation by doing repeatable quests knows that it can be quite tedious and make it seem a lot longer. However if you allow yourself distractions, it won't be as bad, or at least not feel as long as it really is.

Grinding out these quests, you'll naturally end up killing quite a few mobs and of course get a few bagfuls of stuff. There's not much gold to be made from the mobs themselves, but there are occasional drops that you could sell on the AH, or vendor. I ended up collecting everything and vendoring the trash, disenchanted any greens, and any sellable items made their way to the AH.

While doing the Frostsaber Provisions quest you'll end up with a lot of grey items that don't stack, so either don't pick them up or just make frequent trips to the vendor. While doing the Winterfall Intrusion quest, you'll get an occasional green item, a few leatherworking patterns, and quite a bit of Winterfall Firewater. If you are are able to get some "bonus honor" from Timbermaw Hold, then a lot of Winterfall Spirit Beads will drop (I ended up with 327 of these beads). Doing the Rampaging Giants quest, you'll get frequent drops of Recipe: Greater Frost Protection Potion. If you still have the Cache of Mau'ari you'll be able to collect the various E'ko from your kills and turn them in for different Juju. These Juju are battle elixirs that grant you different buffs depending on which E'ko you turn in. The Juju are soulbound, but the E'ko are not.

So was the grind worth it? For me it was, I got a lot more out of it than just this mount. The biggest one was finding a guild I enjoy being in. Remember that level 65 shaman that was trying to get this mount at the same time I was? Well she is the GM of the new guild I joined recently, so finding a good guild was the direct result of this grind. Though not as big a deal, I went from unfriendly to revered with the Timbermaw Hold just by turning in those spirit beads. I thought I would get to exalted, but it looks like those enchants from Timbermaw will have to wait.

I actually saw quite a few people grinding out reputation for this mount, so perhaps word is getting out that this grind isn't as bad as it use to be. Though this reputation grind was worth it for me it may not be for everyone. I was at a point where this grind was right for me as I wasn't doing much else in game besides dailies and the occasional instance. Will it be worth it for you to do it? That depends. I do have some suggestions though for those that are even thinking about doing this reputation grind.

• If you are less than 60, you could grind out a few of these quests to help you level, but I wouldn't do more than that. You'll get your level 60 epic mount and you should move ahead to Outlands.
• If you are less than 70, you should skip this grind for now. You should level to 70 because the mount you really need is the flying mount in Outlands. This mount opens up a whole new world and a lot of quests are unobtainable until you have one.
• If you are 70:
  • Don't have flying mount - don't do this grind. Seriously, get your flying mount. It's that important.
  • Broke, meaning no gold - definitely don't do this grind. Dailies, dailies, dailies. A conservative estimate of 100g per in game hour means you'll lose the opportunity of ~3000 gold. It's a no-brainer.
  • Have regular flying mount but not epic - you could casually do this grind. I know it takes a lot of time to gather the 5000 gold for the epic flight training, so to break that up, stop by once in a while and grind out a couple of quests.
  • Raiding - got time before the raid but not enough time to do anything else? Here's a good way to get some grinding done while waiting.
  • Have done it all - by all means grind out this quest. It's a very nice mount to add to your collection and it's one of those rarer mounts that just look awesome.
  • Bored - Depends. If you are bored of doing other things (like dailies) then this may be enough of a distraction or incentive to break up the boredom. However if you are truly bored with the game perhaps you need to take a break or find other ways to reinvigorate the game experience (have you tried dual or multiboxing?)

I'm quite happy now that I've gotten my Winterspring Frostsaber mount. It was a long grind but well worth it.

If you want to catch up on the entire experience, check out the previous stories here.

A lot of the reputation grinds in the World of Warcraft are just that, grinds. Long, repetitive, somewhat mindless, and ultimately boring grinds. There's a reason why many people ignore many reputation grinds that just require multitudes of tedious killing and unvarying repeatable quests. It just gets so boring and takes so much time that unless you are completely focused and dedicated, there will be things that will distract you from it. Distractions are exactly what is needed to keep the grind going.

This has happened to me since I started my quest to get exalted reputation with the Frostsaber Trainers for the Winterspring Frostsaber mount. I've continued somewhat diligently and tried to remain focused on completing the quests. I've even gone as far as to try to complete these as efficiently as possible because I really wanted to finish quickly.

Recently I've joined a new guild and have been asked to help in some instances. Initially I avoided joining these runs thinking that any thing I do that isn't grinding the reputation quests is time away from, . . . well grinding the reputation quests. I realized that the grind was just getting tedious and I found myself only casually trying to gain reputation. So it didn't make sense to avoid other things just to focus on grinding.

I finally joined a group when the GM asked if I could help in an instance. She knew I was grinding rep and didn't want to bother me, but they really needed some DPS to finish the instance. So I joined the group and I'm glad I did. It reminded me why I enjoy playing WoW. Even though I've done the instance dozens of times, many of the guildies in the group were still leveling. So it was a lot fun watching those learn the fights and make new discoveries.

So this one distraction broke the tedium of the reputation grind and actually allowed me to go back to it. Distractions are exactly what's needed to refresh a long reputation grind. Since then I've joined a few more instance runs and have been having a great time. I've also managed to fit in more reputation grinding because of this.

So if you get the opportunity to do something else that sounds fun, do it. Sure your reputation grind will be longer, but at least this way you'll be having fun instead of bored out of your mind.

This is a continuation of my quest for a Winterspring Frostsaber mount. Related previous posts include: My Frostsaber Grind Begins, Frostsaber Grind Revisited, and Frostsaber Grind Bonus Points.

Last night I got to Honored with the Frostsaber Trainers and Rivern Frostwind offered up a new quest called, Rampaging Giants. This quest gives 350 reputation points and requires you to kill four Frostmourn Giants and four Frostmourn Preservers. These giants however are on the opposite end of the zone.

Looking at the map it looks like it's quite a ways away and I believe that most people are skipping this quest because it's so far away and may not be an effective use of time. As I've done with the other quests, I went ahead and did five roundtrips of this and got the average roundtrip time for completion. Though the quest area is on the opposite end of the zone, it only takes about 3.5 minutes to get there. The giants are spread out around the rim of the valley and it's easy to find enough of them complete the quests within several minutes (average time to complete the killing is about six minutes). The average total time for a rountrip is about 14 minutes.

This quest should not be skipped as it's probably the most time efficient quest for Frostsaber Trainers reputation. If you look at it in terms of reputation points per minute, this quest will give as much reputation as the Winterfall Intrusion quest at it's absolute best time. However, as I mentioned earlier the Winterfall Village is problematic because it is heavily camped by both factions for the quest objectives, and can severly impede grinding speed. The Rampaging Giants quest is rarely camped and I have yet to see anyone else in that area killing those giants. So even though it's a long ways away, it's made up for by the increase in 100 more reputation points and the fact that not many people are there killing the quest mobs.

Naturally one could combine any of these quests together and be very effective at gaining reputation. It is probably the ideal situation to combine the Rampaging Giants and the Winterfall Intrusion quest together for the most efficient reputation gain. All three quests could be combined of course, but I find the drop percentage on the Frostsaber Provisions quest to be too limiting. I'd rather make the long run to kill those giants than grind out killing those Chillwinds and Shartooths.

It's a long run down to those giants, I just have to remember to equip my Riding Crop with every trip.

This is a continuation of my two previous posts on gaining Frostsaber Trainers reputation and a Winterspring Frostsaber mount: My Frostsaber Grind Begins and Frostsaber Grind Revisited.

While grinding towards Exalted with the Frostsaber Trainers, there is opportunity to get some "bonus points", yes that's correct, bonus reputation points.

These aren't Frostsaber Trainer reputation points however, but rather Timbermaw Hold reputation. Though reputation with Timbermaw Hold is no longer relevant post-TBC, it's still nice to get especially if you're an enchanter and trying to learn as many enchants as possible as I'm trying to do. They offer Enchant 2H Weapon - Agility at Friendly, and Enchant Weapon - Agility at Honored. They have several patterns and plans for the other professions as well. You could see their reputation rewards here.

If you have leveled through this zone, you probably completed the Winterfall Activity quest. If so, then you will be able to collect Winterfall Spirit Beads and turn them in as part of the repeatable quest, Beads for Salfa. Here you turn in five Winterfall Spirit beads for 150 300 reputation points with Timbermaw Hold. So while completing the Winterfall Intrusion quest for Frostsaber Trainers reputation, you could also collect these beads and essentially get bonus reputation with Timbermaw Hold. You also get two four reputation points for each furbolg killed (four eight reputation points if you kill High Chief Winterfall).

Most of us inadvertently became Unfriendly (or lower) reputation with the Timbermaw Hold because of some quests that were done while leveling. So this is an opportunity to repair your reputation with them and if you get enough beads to turn in, perhaps pick up of what they have to offer. I for one like the bonus reputation and should get enough reputation to get those two enchants by the time I have my Frostsaber mount.

[Update:]As of Patch 3.0.2 the reputation rewards from all quests and mob kills regarding Timbermaw Hold have been doubled.

In an earlier post I discussed a little about the potential time it would take to grind out Exalted reputation with the Frostsaber Trainers. Well I'm here to revisit my estimates as I have some new information.

Half way through Neutral reputation (1500 points) with the Frostsaber Trainers, Rivern Frostwind offers up a new quest called Winterfall Intrusion. Here you are asked to slay furbolgs, five Winterfall Shaman and five Winterfall Ursa located in Winterfall Village which is due east of Everlook. The rewards for this repeatable quest is 250 points of reputation, same as the first one.

This opens up two more possibilities. Do only the Frostsaber Provisions quest, do only the Winterfall Instrusion quest, or do both at the same time. I went ahead and investigated these scenarios because I want to maximize efficiency and minimize the grinding time.

If you'll recall, I estimated an average roundtrip of 17.5 minutes for each Frostsaber Provisions quest. If I could do both the Frostsaber Provisions and the Winterfall Intrusion quests in less than 35 minutes, then it would be more efficient for me to do these two quests than just grinding out the first quest.

These two quests could actually be combined in the same roundtrip. Since Winterfall Village is east of Everlook, I would go directly there first for the Winterfall Intrusion quest, then on the way back, kill Shardtooths and Chillwinds for the Frostsaber Provisions quest. So like before, I did five of these roundtrips and averaged the roundtrip time. What I expected was that doing these two quests together would improve my grinding time since the Winterfall Intrusion quest should not take as long as the Frostsaber Provisions because the quest objective is a kill quest and not a gathering quest dependant on the drop rate.

What I discovered is that doing both of these quests together, I had about a 5 minute improvement (22 minute roundtrip) over doing two of just the Frostsaber Provisions quests alone. That's a 37% improvement, resulting in a decrease in grinding time from 47.5 hours as reported earlier to 29.9 hours (assuming 163 quest turn ins).

I also completed five quests of doing just the Winterfall Intrusion and what I found out was that doing this alone could significantly reduce the grinding time, but there's a caveat (more on that later). The average roundtrip time to do this quest is about 10 minutes. The respawn time for the mobs within the Winterfall Village is between 6-8 minutes, so it is possible to do this quest back to back without having to wait for the mobs to respawn. So with an average roundtrip of 10 minutes, that's an improvement of 42.8%, or a decrease in grinding time from the original 47.5 hours to 27.2 hours. Nice right?

So it sounds like the way to go is just to do the Winterfall Instrusions quest? Well, that's where the caveat is. Allow me to explain. The mobs within the village are randomized respawns so sometimes you'll get a favorable mob composition and will complete the quest in a matter of minutes. Typically you are able to complete half of the quest and have to wait until they respawn to complete the rest. The respawn is between 6-8 minutes. Even with the respawn it's still better to grind out just this quest, but there's one more thing that could actually slow down your grinding time significantly and may mean that it would be more efficient to just grind out the Frostsaber Provisions quest.

The caveat is that mobs within the Winterfall Village are the objective of two quests that people leveling are trying to complete, Winterfall Activity and High Chief Winterfall. So you may have some competition for the mobs within the village. If there are others killing the mobs you need, you are then at the mercy of getting to the mobs first, and the 6-8 minute respawn time. So you could see how this could significantly slow you down. Another thing is that quests in the village are both Horde and Alliance, so you may run into a few from the other faction. If you are on a PvP server this could of course slow you down as well. I found that the best time to do this quest is when no one is around in the village (e.g. late at night).

So what this means is that there are a couple options open that will help minimize the grind time for the Frostsaber mount. It's situational on which quests will be most efficient, but at least with these two quests there is a huge potential to reduce the grinding time.

[Postscript]

While I was doing this little experiment I ran into a very kind level 65 enhancement shaman, Avelea, who was also grinding reputation with the Frostsaber Trainers. She had just begun and was working on the Frostsaber Provisions quest. As we talked it sounded like it was taking her a littler longer to get all the meat for that quest, but not significantly longer. Though I am probably killing the mobs faster than she was, the real limiting factor is the drop rate, and killing faster doesn't help there. So it's expected that the times would be similar. When I last spoke with her she had just gotten enough reputation for the Winterfall Intrusions quest. I gave her the quick scoop on this quest and the time it could potentially take. I'd love to hear her experience on this reputation grind. So Avelea, if you happen to see this post and are willing to comment or write something up for posting, I'd welcome it.

I got up in the middle of the night and just couldn't go back to sleep. Logging on I thought I'd finish off a few dailies until I was tired enough again to go back to bed, but then I got this idea. I was bored of doing the dailies, didn't feel like doing an instance or PvP, so I thought I'd work on my reputation with one of the factions. Looking through my reputation list, there was definitely a lot I could work on getting Exalted with, but which one? The Consortium would be nice and wouldn't take too long, and then the Cenarion Expedition has a Hippogryph mount that I wouldn't mind having, but then something caught my eye a little ways down the list. Frostsaber Trainers. I was Neutral with them and had only 75 points.

I remember when I was leveling in Winterspring encountering an NPC atop of Frostsaber Rock named Rivern Frostwind. He's the one that will sell you a Winterspring Frostsaber mount if you are Exalted with the Wintersaber Trainers. I remember turning in one of the reputation quests and got only 50 reputation for it. I was 56 or 57 at the time and remember thinking that there was no way I'd get to Exalted because it would take me weeks if not months of actual play time just doing the repeatable quests. That was just too much for me to justify. So I left Rivern Winterspring up there on the rock and my Frostsaber Trainers reputation at 75. Checking it today it was still at 75.

The Winterspring Frostsaber is a beautiful mount that you don't see around much just because most people don't have the patience for the reputation grind. When Ziv hit 60 I just barely had enough gold for the Journeyman riding skill, let alone any gold for my epic mount. So instead I went the PvP epic mount route. I ground out honor points in all the battlegrounds until I had enough to get my Black War Tiger. I've had this same epic ground mount ever since. Perhaps it's time I get a nice new one and retire the Black War Tiger.

Checking Wowiki I found out that the reputation grind for getting this mount has gotten easier over several patches, and with Patch 2.3 got significantly easier. Instead of 50 reputation points for each quest turn in, it was now 250 reputation points. So instead of grinding out 840 quests, it is now only 168 quests. That is a much more reasonable reputation grind. So maybe I will get a Frostsaber mount afterall.

I headed over to Winterspring and found Rivern still up there on Frostsaber Rock. I got the Frostsaber Provisions quest. I had to get five Shardtooth Meat and five Chillwind Meat. I wanted to know how long of reputation grind I was in for so I did the quest five times just to get an average time and the average number of Shardtooh and Chillwinds I'd have to kill for each quest. The average was about 17.5 minutes roundtrip inculding getting all the required meat. On average I would have to kill 15 Shardtooth and 14 Chillwind.

I kill pretty fast, only a few seconds per mob, but with the drop rate and the travel time, 17.5 minutes per quest is not that fast a grind. At this rate I'd be looking to finishing the remaining 163 quests in about 47.5 hours of actual played time. That's still quite a grind. But I've decided that I'm going to get me this mount. Noting down the /played time for reference, I begin.